Curse

milias · Dec 02, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

I love Barrage! But as is the case with every other skill in the game, there's a time and a place for it. Give the best sword in the game to a novice, and he/she will only end up hurting him/herself.

FalconDance · Dec 02, 2006, 07:58 PM // 19:58

Sorry, KazeMitsui, you're clearly a n00b ranger

.

Just kidding. Quite an impressive roster of achievements.

Grammar · Dec 02, 2006, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by AuraofMana

There are better NONELITE bow attacks that deal much more to a single target.
And yes, some of them cost 5 energy without Expertise factoring in.

Actually, not really. I'm far to lazy at the moment to redo and post all the math, but if you spam barrage immediately upon recharge on a single target (so every arrow you fire at him/her is a barrage), barrage will out-DPS every other non-elite bow attack in the game. I'm dead serious. Run to wiki and do the math if you don't believe me.
(I say "non-elite" because Burning Arrow will beat it when you factor in the 5 seconds of burning)

However, when you factor in preperations and the use of multiple bow attacks, the scale tips heavy in the other direction.
If single-target damage is what you desire (as is the case with fighting Shiro), then you're much better off bringing multiple single-target bow attacks and a nice preperation.

Personally, I love Barrage in PvE for the same reason I love Triple Chop, SS, and Searing Flames in PvE: it just does more overall damage than the alternatives 90% of the time.
Right now my ranger is running Barrage + Mark of Rodgort + Conjure Flame + Glyph of Lesser Energy 90% of the time, and the AoE damage is just ridiculous. The other 10% of the time when I desire better single-target focus fire and interrupt ability, I run Burning Arrow, a prep, and half a bar of interrupts.

The reason so many rangers run Barrage in PvE is that it's an excellent PvE skill.....90% of the time. Obviously, an alternative build is required for the other 10%, such as the Shiro example in this thread.

Sir Mad · Dec 02, 2006, 08:50 PM // 20:50

ROFL you're story with Shiro reminded me what happened when a mate asked me to help him beat Abaddon. The case is simillar: barrage is also useless there, as beside Abaddon you only have to kill Carvings who come in groups of 2. We decided to try with a PuG (he was also a ranger). We find one, the guys ask us our build - my mate had a burning arrow build, I had a Quickshot build. Just imagine their reaction: "OMFG NOOB! QUICKSHOT SUCKZ! TAKE BARRAGE!". I tried to explain them barrage was useless, but heck, they couldn't get it. We left before they kick us. Instead we heroed the mission. And guess what? We both had Needling Shot and made Abaddon's health drop from 50% to 10% in one appearance (we both had a vamp hornbow, flail, RtW and FW active, and were backed up by an order necro). I guess the other guys were still looking for a barrager when we killed the dude...

KazeMitsui · Dec 02, 2006, 09:38 PM // 21:38

i still would rather have single target dmg rather than barrage cause preps are always nice

Carth` · Dec 02, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Bah, the cult of Barrage isn't just a ranger problem. Seems like all non-rangers think the only thing a ranger can do is Barrage. I don't like playing my ranger any more. Join a group and everyone asks if you are a Barrage ranger. If you answer "no" you get kicked.

On a related note, the other day the leader of the group I was in asked for a nuker. A nuker joined, and the leader told him to ping his skill bar. It was a fairly standard Searing Flames/Glowing Gaze build. Two people in the group said "wtf kick", and the leader did. Because he couldn't produce two or more Meteor Showers in a row. I would rather have the SF in my group.

SalamandraTheNinja · Dec 02, 2006, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Now that I think of it, making a Cult of Barrage might not be a bad idea. A cult which sole duty is to do everything with Barrage.

That said... yes, obviously Barrage isn't supposed to be used everywhere, and rangers probably do have this problem more than anyone else. But other professions do still have this problem, such as MMs in a place with no corpses.

Blkout · Dec 03, 2006, 01:40 AM // 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth`

Bah, the cult of Barrage isn't just a ranger problem. Seems like all non-rangers think the only thing a ranger can do is Barrage. I don't like playing my ranger any more. Join a group and everyone asks if you are a Barrage ranger. If you answer "no" you get kicked.

On a related note, the other day the leader of the group I was in asked for a nuker. A nuker joined, and the leader told him to ping his skill bar. It was a fairly standard Searing Flames/Glowing Gaze build. Two people in the group said "wtf kick", and the leader did. Because he couldn't produce two or more Meteor Showers in a row. I would rather have the SF in my group.

I've never once been kicked from a group or even asked if I was using Barrage as a Ranger and I've been playing since Prophecies went retail. It's hard for me to believe that you are that unfortunate.

Blkout · Dec 03, 2006, 01:44 AM // 01:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by KazeMitsui

i still would rather have single target dmg rather than barrage cause preps are always nice

Single target damage is GREAT...against bosses or PvP. Otherwise Barrage is very effective in PvE for 98% of the game.

Carth` · Dec 03, 2006, 03:18 AM // 03:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blkout

I've never once been kicked from a group or even asked if I was using Barrage as a Ranger and I've been playing since Prophecies went retail. It's hard for me to believe that you are that unfortunate.

Happens to me nearly every time my ranger joins a group. It's hard for me to believe that you are that fortunate.

But then again, it's possible everyone just assumes you are a Barrage ranger. What other elite is there to use? lol -_-

Kit Engel · Dec 03, 2006, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth`

Bah, the cult of Barrage isn't just a ranger problem. Seems like all non-rangers think the only thing a ranger can do is Barrage. I don't like playing my ranger any more. Join a group and everyone asks if you are a Barrage ranger. If you answer "no" you get kicked.

On a related note, the other day the leader of the group I was in asked for a nuker. A nuker joined, and the leader told him to ping his skill bar. It was a fairly standard Searing Flames/Glowing Gaze build. Two people in the group said "wtf kick", and the leader did. Because he couldn't produce two or more Meteor Showers in a row. I would rather have the SF in my group.

I haven't really seen barrage discrimination anywhere except maybe in the Tombs. And this is coming from a person that gets bored and runs thumpers in PVE sometimes... it's weird.

This may be a bit tangential to the issue, but some classes suffer the opposite... nobody questions their build enough. Most groups don't bother looking too closely at a Monk's skills, I'm noticing, and sometimes you end up trying to live with someone trying to hold up the group via Heal Other/Jamei's Gaze spam...

Wolydarg · Dec 03, 2006, 03:34 AM // 03:34

This has been brought up so many times >_>

Barrage isn't a nub skill, it's a great skill, that's why newer rangers use it. There's no reason for them not to use it if you think about it, PvE is so easy (except for that new Domain of Anguish) that with barrage you can get through all the way up to FoW with bp groups. Just keep pressing c, and 1, and pugs will know that at least their ranger is doing something.

Granted, for imperial sanctum barrage was not the best choice. yet just because people use barrage a ton doesn't mean it's considered "cookie cutter nub". It's just people can see it's usefulness regardlesss.

Sidra · Dec 03, 2006, 03:36 AM // 03:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carth`

Happens to me nearly every time my ranger joins a group. It's hard for me to believe that you are that fortunate.

But then again, it's possible everyone just assumes you are a Barrage ranger. What other elite is there to use? lol -_-

Heh. I love it when people invite me into groups, and its just like "oh yeah, a ranger" and they leave it at that. I'm not expected to do anything, or play any key part, just be "the ranger". Then there are groups that I'm a crutch for. It makes a happy medium when I play R/*. Most of the time though, I'm a Poison Arrow or Barrage/interrupt ranger. Or just any random build of stuff I think looks funny. I think the ranger is definetely the most fun class

Riotgear · Dec 03, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

People like Barrage because they figure the "total damage" they're inflicting is through the roof. Except with the new AI, it's generally more important to be able to hammer strays going after your squishies than be able to shoot the garbage lining up around the tank. If things are actually cooperating and lined up around the tank, you don't need barrage, you need a paragon with Blazing Finale. :P

Bloodied Blade · Dec 03, 2006, 04:17 AM // 04:17

[QUOTE=KazeMitsui]i totally agree with you barrage... i was so excited when i first got to cap it from that dude after that mission. Everyone was telling me how great it was and all that saying it was the skill to have and nothing else but i found out... That i rarely ever use that skill the only time i use it was when i farm trolls oh so long ago... but yea i too use Burning Arrow and it helps so much more than barrage.. I just dont really see why people always want B/P cause to me its like a meh NO... but yea here is a screenie and tell me if im still a noob ranger...

take in mind i rarely ever solo cause i only farmed trolls for like 5 skill points... so i could cap elites for title

*snip out pic*

But but but you don't have mending from your monk secondary!

jk there... but ya, I have to agree with some of the above posters. I found barrage rather underwhelming after I first got it. I've tried B/P, got immensely bored of it very fast... I really love Poison Arrow though, and Concussion Shot tends to stay on my bar as well if I know there's going to be a lot of monks in the area (it slaughters the Dolyak Masters in THK...hit their Life Attunement with it and down they go).

I think the main problem is all the misinformation about barrage being such a good skill. It really isn't very good when you notice that you can't use a prep with it (meaning that you usually have to bring Favorable Winds, which makes your faster arrow boost easy to end with a stray fireball). If you could use a preparation with it, then it would be overpowered...without a prep, it's boring. I've had Read the Wind since pre-sear, and frankly it's my favorite prep (I hate missing...and I like fast arrow hits).

Darkpower Alchemist · Dec 03, 2006, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loki Seiguro

Barrage is a good skill and btw i think you show some noobness by saying they brought it for only one target. Ture it does hit mulitple tagets but it also adds like 17 dmg at only 2 energy cost if they have like 9 exp.

i use barrge too but for shir i believe i went with a touch ranger lmao but can't rember maybe not....yeah i know touchers suck and w/e

i dont really have any true build for my ranger yet maybe just the solo fow one on this forums because i don't play my ranger any more

If you don't play your ranger,why the hell are you even commenting about a ranger skill being overblown in a ranger thread? Free speech not being argued,but dude, you are throwing stones in a glass house. Get a grip, put your ranger mask back on, and see the truth.

Barrage is not needed for single target damage. For Christ's sake, needling shot with RtW might cause more individual damage per shot than barrage and even more once the target is under 50% hp. Touchers don't suck, but are a "touch" overused

.

Barrage isn't a bad skill,but it isn't the ONLY skill a ranger has and damn sure shouldn't be used for EVERY situation and against EVERY single enemy that you face. It's people like you,my good friend,that make the new rangers feel that it's ok to bring barrage to a sword fight,a hammer fight, and any other fight in between.

Don't encourage ignorance.

the_jos · Dec 03, 2006, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Quote:

Yea, BHA is only really useful against bosses. Even then in most scenarios you are better of bringing Concussion Shot and leaving your elite slot open.

When I take BHA, Concussion is also on my bar.

Put BHA on the enemy monk which is the first target for the group anyway.
Bye monk.
Switch to second monk or caster, Concussion (and keep that one shut myself).
BHA is unconditional daze, compared to Concussion where you must hit a spell.

It's all personal preference, I guess.

XvArchonvX · Dec 03, 2006, 03:03 PM // 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_jos

When I take BHA, Concussion is also on my bar.

Put BHA on the enemy monk which is the first target for the group anyway.
Bye monk.
Switch to second monk or caster, Concussion (and keep that one shut myself).
BHA is unconditional daze, compared to Concussion where you must hit a spell.

It's all personal preference, I guess.

That's a big energy investment to put dazed on two targets when you can only attack one.

Bloodied Blade · Dec 03, 2006, 06:48 PM // 18:48

I prefer to just use Concussion...under Read the Wind (or if you want to shoot them in melee distance) it's extremely easy to catch anything 1s cast and greater. Running BHA as well seems rather redundant to me...Concussion has a 4-6 second recharge or so, and you can only attack 1 target at a time anyway. BHA also eliminates your ability to run an elite like Poison/Burning Arrow (Poison Arrow being one of my favorite elites).

KazeMitsui · Dec 03, 2006, 10:47 PM // 22:47

barrage = meh thats all i have to say.. thats why as a ranger i never go with pugs causee they ask for b/p n thats no fun n meh on barrage... doodoo